Of course the event I’m referring to in the above comic is the lingerie fashion show that took place in the snowy mountains of Lebanon over the weekend (Click to see pics). I hope this event wasn’t a deterrent to women’s voices across Lebanon from being heard and taken seriously.
Happy 100th International Women’s day!
.
Well,
A more progressive feminist view is that if certain women willingly choose to be sexual objects (like lingerie models and beauty pageants) , it is within their rights to do so, as this is what empowerment is about: Choice.
It is important to get the nuance here: Society should not treat women like sexual objects, but individual women should be able to do whatever they want without being judged, by men or other feminists..
Hey Mustapha, thanks a lot for commenting. You’re right that women should NOT be treated as sexual objects. However, I don’t agree with the progressive feminist view you mentioned above because I think it has been used in an abusive manner by the commercial industry. It’s tricked women into thinking that it is a “good” thing to take of your clothes etc. because it’s giving you “power”. I think the best reference I can make here is to Ariel Levy’s book “Female Chauvinist Pig”. Read about it when you have time
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/18/books/review/18egan.html
Of course I see your argument, but it has one big flaw in it:
First re-read what you wrote:
It’s tricked women into thinking that it is a “good” thing to take of your clothes etc. because it’s giving you “power”
Have you noticed something? There’s an inherent assumption in that phrase that you know better what’s good for that model/beauty pageant than she does herself. You have effectively replaced one form of paternalism (Dad knows best what’s good for you), with another (The feminists know best what’s good for you).
Even if women make the wrong choices, and like you said, a lot of abuse can take place, the whole point is for women to have one.
May I disagree?
I mean look around, women have their rights but not in 3rd world countries! Besides every one of those girls was by choice on the stage, so what’s wrong with it? Women drive trains, buses in europe. They are lawyers, MDs and so on… And by the way, it’s cheaper to hire a man than a woman
She can get up to 3 years pregnancy vacation and come back to the same job as if nothing happened and this is why indirectly you would avoid hiring women 
What you have mentioned here is more like from a conservative woman point of view than a woman fighting for women’s rights! So don’t confuse both of them
Last but not least, your mom would’ve been at the show if there were men. She did not say it, but this is what you understand indirectly! Or this is your point of view and you’re just listing it as your mom joke
Yes, life is not easy
Hi Roderick. I appreciate and thank you for your comment
The last paragraph was of course meant as a joke hehe
As with regards to your comment, the drawing itself as well as my comment below the drawing was related to women in Lebanon and not abroad (europe I believe) as you stated . As is mentioned among many Lebanese blogs(too many to list right now, check LebanonAggregator if you want to see the list of blogs) women are considered as half a citizen in Lebanon. We are NOT paid equally with regards to men, we CANNOT pass our nationalities to our children should we choose to marry foreigners, and we DO NOT have the law on our side in many cases of rape. Furthermore, our jobs are not secured should we choose to have children and take an absence of leave.
And my last comment on the topic of “power” and “choice” with regards to whether or not a women can strip or whatever (I realize a different topic on it’s own), has nothing to do with having a conservative point of view or not. I merely want to clarify that sexual power should NOT be confused with power, a notion that seems to be propagated and abused by the porn industry and media to encourage women to strip etc. I understand that in this day and age sex sells. But I don’t want women to believe that just by stripping they have gained power. Do they have a choice? Yes, but don’t confuse that choice with having equal rights as men which many seem to think so.
So I guess we have to agree to disagree? Hehe now, back to work or we’ll all “equally” be fired! Have a nice day
Hi there,
imho if you wanna take it on a Lebanese level, then you are right. No rights for woman, no rights for men, no rights for kids and no rights for the citizens! It’s all relative (I love Einstein for this theory)…
I am not sure about the current situation in Lebanon, but from what I see on tv, lebanese women like to be dependent from men! Maybe not all of them are like that but the majority…
lol i just dont get the point of having a lingerie fashion show in the snowy mountains … its ridiculously funny
happy International Women’s Day!
Thank you Eliane! Have a wonderful IWD
Really? It’s because their nipplez stick out further and longer. Which is great.
I think you guys mis-understood Sareen’s point. At least what I got from it, was the fact that “some” women, don’t think of themselves more than sexual objects, yet they want rights. The idea is that the woman knows what she wants, be it being a model of lingerie in the snow, or a lawyer. But, problem is, women, and Roody and Mustafa and every guy, you do know that women, since ever, have been “pushed” into these jobs. Now we are no longer in that era, we’ve come a long way through, but sadly, some women, still don’t see themselves as more than having few rules.
P.s. we all appreciate women’s beauty and sexiness, but there is more to a woman, and am sure you both already know that. I just believe the point Sareen was trying to make was misunderstood
You should be the person to write my replies from now on. I think you said it perfectly! Thanks Lil
U said pushed? Pushed into these jobs?
I am sorry but if ur life is books and blogs and twitter (not saying it’s a bad life) you have no idea how the rest of the world is going.
Women are not pushed anywhere, yes they don’t have equal rights we all agree, but try working in fashion, nightlife, entertainment. Babe I know a lebanese model that travels that travels the world with rich men, I know another ukranian that follows football stars, I know an italian that won’t date a guy if he doesn’t have a boat. Pushed you say? No it’s by complete free will and choice…
I work in fashion, if u want my stories I am MORE than willing to tell all of u. You’ll be amazed how women are. Yes burning bras is fun but no matter how many bras are burned, some women totaly disagree with what you girls are preaching.
I don’t , I agree I am just trying to tell you something that you don’t see on blogs and tweet-ups and shit like that.
Sean, honestly lol its funny how you labelled me as a nerd who’s only experience in life is online
And well I won’t reply since you really either didn’t get my point, or don’t read about what’s happening to women in the world
Yes lil you are right!
Women have been pushed to do this job as well as men have been pushed by the society to drive Mercedes and smoke cigars.
You should be smart enough to know what is best for you! No one is forcing you to put those clothes on and walk on the stage. If I am not happy doing something, I quit and look for something different. So it’s about your personality. Those women are greedy, they want money and this is the best way to get it ( I was going to say the easiest and fastest way, but again all models will attack me and whine on how hard is to look sexy and walk the cat walk).
So “bel 3arabe el mshabra7″:
7tarna ya ar3a men wayn baddna nboussik!
w kell watan w ento bkhayr
Meh, I meant “more than having few roles” She can be whatever she wants ya3ne
now some women do have the choice. but not all. in hope, that all get to that point eventually
hahahahaha no no I didnt mean it that way lol, but because I been experiencing life in fashion and nightlife and entertainement for over a decade now, I saw a different aspect of what you girls are fighting for…
Great post Sareen.
As for the “No one is forcing them to put those clothes on and walk on the stage…” argument, sorry to say, but that’s not true.
The economy is forcing them to do so. Do you think that these women, given the opportunity, wouldn’t rather work and live in their own country? (most of these models, if not all, are from overseas, most likely eastern Europeans)
It’s not just about choices, it’s about empowering women to make the right choices. and with education, chances of employment, fair treatment (etc..) i’m sure you’ll find most women wouldn’t want to model in ski resorts…
This response is why I like you Simon. Thanks for the well thought out comment
You people don’t live in the real world… No one is forcing them (I am not talking about eastern european slave trade , or poor ex-communist countries) I am sorry but you guys don’t know what you talking about when it comes to beautiful women and how the willing choose their life
I say we switch places and come out of ur blogs and twitter and look at the world from the real point of view… Words are easy… Everyone can state a point of view I am just saying try to look at the real deal.
Hi again. First of all, no one is attacking your point of view and you are of course entitled to have one
Second, we mentioned many times in the above comments that we are referring to Lebanon and NOT to Italy, Germany, or any other first world country you are referring to where, yes women have such luxuries and have the freedom to make these choices.
Lebanon on the other hand currently lacks laws to protect some of the basic rights of women. So yes, we DO live in the real world and that world is Lebanon We are stating what happens in LEBANON. For every Ukranian or whatever model that dates these rich men you state above, you have hundreds of thousands across the world that are forced into prostitution. We are not demanding rights for these rich models. We are demanding rights for those who do not have voices. For those who have no one to defend them.
So again, I respect your opinion but please read ours as well before accusing us Lebanese for not living in the “real” world.
Noone is attacking anyone… but this applies to Lebanon too… I am Lebanese, born and raised… and it amazes how some people disregard some facts in life to support a cause.
I am just saying you don’t see the world as it is… you have selective view of what is real.
I am just saying that some women don’t agree to what u r preaching… IN LEBANON! ” your real world”
You know, I was looking through these photos and was shocked, disgusted, and horrified that there were CHILDREN in the audience! Can you believe that shit?! And to think this disgusting event coincided closely with International Woman’s Day. I’m just ashamed.
I find the European argument the most empowering of all. Their argument is that clothing regulations create a ‘false demand’ for nudity, which creates the idea that lingerie and all of the other forms of semi-nudity are desirable.
Incidentally discrimination and rape is low in countries where freedom allows everyone the freedom to choose their own behavior.
There are some people who will be openly promiscuous and others who will be the opposite, but it is their choice and no one elses, not the governments, not ours, theirs.
The US claims to be for freedom but regulates peoples behavior as much as Arab countries.
I am a female Canadian and can only speak on my experiences as one.
In Canada, if you’re a model (female or male) you’re considered desirable to the opposite sex. I’m sure there are women forced into modelling, but I think that in Canada, most women chose it, even while they can be anyone or anything they want. But I think that two points can be made on behalf of the feminist argument. First, everyone wants to be valued and loved. It’s a basic human need. I think that for women, a strong message we receive (often subtly but also regularly and unmistakably) is that while being a doctor or lawyer or whatever is great and a wonderful accomplishment, to be truly valued a woman must also be attractive. Or she can just be attractive. I suspect that this explains why many women chose to model, despite having access to other jobs here in Canada.
For women like myself who will never and can never be a model (ie the vast majority of women), a modelling show on International Women’s Day hurts: as usual, it celebrates and focuses on the value of beautiful women. And while models contribute to the world, I personally don’t believe that their contributions compare to those of many other professions held by women- professions which are unlikely to be celebrated on International Women’s Day.
Men can influence their opposite-sex desirability more easily than women. Being intelligent, rich, well educated, funny, confident, athletic, etc gets men more points.
The second thing I want to point out is that the consequence of consistent celebration of female beauty and inconsistent celebration of other valuable qualities in women is that women attach their value as human beings to their appearance. Men may do so, but to a far lesser degree. I think that part of this may be because women’s value as a whole is dictated primarily by their desirability to men. Men’s value is dictated only partly by their desirability to women. Women feel the need to be attractive in order to feel both desirable to men and to feel worth as a human.
Celebrating models on our day is like donating money to a trust fund recipient.